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	<title>Comments on: recapturing the wesleys&#8217; vision 3</title>
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	<description>thoughts on the Christian spiritual life</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://guymwilliams.net/2008/07/24/recapturing-the-wesleys-vision-3/#comment-1199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Oh my goodness, this is great stuff.  I&#039;ve been needing to have this exact conversation.  Appreciate you and Andrew pointing me to some good resources.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my goodness, this is great stuff.  I&#8217;ve been needing to have this exact conversation.  Appreciate you and Andrew pointing me to some good resources.</p>
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		<title>By: guy m williams</title>
		<link>http://guymwilliams.net/2008/07/24/recapturing-the-wesleys-vision-3/#comment-1038</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[guy m williams]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://guywilliams.wordpress.com/?p=494#comment-1038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely, Andrew! JW was as much a social justice guy as anyone, but that was paired with orthodox doctrine (crazy--social justice seemed to arise from a commitment to orthodoxy rather than apart from it), a strong evangelistic streak, and a rigorous discipleship agenda. Hmm. Thinking about a post on my favorite Wesley quotes taken out of context and misused today--this is one of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely, Andrew! JW was as much a social justice guy as anyone, but that was paired with orthodox doctrine (crazy&#8211;social justice seemed to arise from a commitment to orthodoxy rather than apart from it), a strong evangelistic streak, and a rigorous discipleship agenda. Hmm. Thinking about a post on my favorite Wesley quotes taken out of context and misused today&#8211;this is one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew C. Thompson</title>
		<link>http://guymwilliams.net/2008/07/24/recapturing-the-wesleys-vision-3/#comment-1037</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew C. Thompson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s always interesting to me the way &quot;social holiness&quot; gets used in the church. Whenever you see it in print the person using it is almost always referring to social justice or social outreach efforts by the church. Clearly, those like Chilcote who really know Wesley don&#039;t use it in that way. But just about everyone else does, including bishops!  But social justice or social outreach is not what Wesley meant by social holiness in the two key places we most often look to: the preface to the 1739 Hymns and Sacred Poems (which you cite) and the sermon, &quot;Upon our Lord&#039;s Sermon on the Mount, IV&quot; (1748). 

In both these texts, Wesley is essentially talking about the holiness that comes from social interaction through the kind of &quot;mutual accountability in fellowship&quot; that you are talking about. Basically, he&#039;s talking about stuff like bands and class meetings, not changing the minimum wage law and building houses for the poor.

It&#039;s not that Wesley didn&#039;t care about what we would consider social justice and social outreach. It was one of the central features of his ministry, going back to his Oxford days. But he just had a different name for it: works of mercy, which were those acts of Christian charity toward the poor and suffering. 

There is a sense in which you can think of social holiness as logically extending into the realm of the kind of social ministry that Wesley called works of mercy, but it&#039;s just that that wasn&#039;t the meaning he had in mind when he wrote the two passages cited above. It&#039;s not splitting hairs; it&#039;s rather a matter of being disciplined in our use of language.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always interesting to me the way &#8220;social holiness&#8221; gets used in the church. Whenever you see it in print the person using it is almost always referring to social justice or social outreach efforts by the church. Clearly, those like Chilcote who really know Wesley don&#8217;t use it in that way. But just about everyone else does, including bishops!  But social justice or social outreach is not what Wesley meant by social holiness in the two key places we most often look to: the preface to the 1739 Hymns and Sacred Poems (which you cite) and the sermon, &#8220;Upon our Lord&#8217;s Sermon on the Mount, IV&#8221; (1748). </p>
<p>In both these texts, Wesley is essentially talking about the holiness that comes from social interaction through the kind of &#8220;mutual accountability in fellowship&#8221; that you are talking about. Basically, he&#8217;s talking about stuff like bands and class meetings, not changing the minimum wage law and building houses for the poor.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not that Wesley didn&#8217;t care about what we would consider social justice and social outreach. It was one of the central features of his ministry, going back to his Oxford days. But he just had a different name for it: works of mercy, which were those acts of Christian charity toward the poor and suffering. </p>
<p>There is a sense in which you can think of social holiness as logically extending into the realm of the kind of social ministry that Wesley called works of mercy, but it&#8217;s just that that wasn&#8217;t the meaning he had in mind when he wrote the two passages cited above. It&#8217;s not splitting hairs; it&#8217;s rather a matter of being disciplined in our use of language.</p>
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		<title>By: JAy.</title>
		<link>http://guymwilliams.net/2008/07/24/recapturing-the-wesleys-vision-3/#comment-1030</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JAy.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Just figured out why your posting this book now (OK, I&#039;m a little slow sometimes!).

Hope you are doing well, and send us some photos of your little &quot;O&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just figured out why your posting this book now (OK, I&#8217;m a little slow sometimes!).</p>
<p>Hope you are doing well, and send us some photos of your little &#8220;O&#8221;.</p>
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